ForumsGeneral › Cazzo Forge - Development / Feedback Thread
Cazzo Forge - Development / Feedback Thread
Oct Dec 1, 2018 70 replies 1683 views
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OP 🤝
This topic will be for any discussion of the Cazzo Forge map / gametypes. I heavily encourage feedback both negative and positive, suggestions, ideas, etc. I will be keeping the public up to date with changes on this topic as well so you can know when an update is available without logging onto the game.

<b>Cazzo Forge </b>

Cazzo Forge is a new map with the concept of an extremely large linear (east and west are the only directions to travel) playable area but with a warp system that enables the quick fast paced combat that events like Red vs Blue offer.

The advantage of Cazzo Forge is that the gameplay changes depending on the map location, and the map location is constantly changing based upon which team is advancing/retreating. We have added flags to help direct combat on the map - these flagged must be captured in order and use radar pinging to easily let you see where to go next. The warp system always places you within 1-2 coords of the enemy so you never have to wait to have a fight.

The map itself is modeled after the USL league maps, taking various tactical elements from maps such as the idea of flank paths. Map design itself also draws from league maps - there are Elsdragon style building chokes to defend, KR east side rock clusters to dominate with laws or a nader, KR style methane rivers, Elsdragon "cock rock", etc. More map sections using the same general concept with different terrains are also planned for the future.

You can view the map at:

https://imgur.com/D9Ox9hx
https://i.imgur.com/D9Ox9hx.png


The whole concept of the zone and the new content is to help build the infantry population back up by making a better public play experience. We have had an increasing influx of players over the last few months, both old and new, that are trying out the game. We want to make sure we have the content that will keep them.

<b>The Future </b>

Right now development is focused on several tasks:

1) Improve gameplay on Cazzo Forge through clever map changes as well as fine tuning the warp and gametype systems.

2) Develop additional map sections / gametypes that use the same set of maps. The next gametype being developed will be a 1-8 player Co-op vs AI bots mode available in a secondary public arena. You will travel from East to West destroying a variety of bots and bot types. There will be mini-bosses and main bosses, possible quest type scenarios / side missions. There are also currently talks about introducing a battle royale style tournament gametype as well. This would include 2-4 player teams that spawn distanced out across the map that battle each other to be the last team standing. The map's playable area will shrink gradually over time from both the east and west over forcing teams to engage in combat.

3) Add a progression system into the current settings. Progression systems present a "next goal" for players to work for through additional playtime which helps increase activity. The idea is for the progression system right now to alter the current PvP structure only slightly but have a heavy impact on player vs bot combat. One idea includes allowing weapons to have their damage able to be upgraded from level 1 -20. Current plans including an opt-out system so that anyone that wishes to avoid the progression system altogether can without any negative effects. If you chose to, your Assault Rifle can always do 14 damage to an enemy and you will always receive only 14 damage - this way the balance for players that cannot commit much time to grind in the zone is not affected.

4) Develop AI for use in various Cazzo Forge gametypes but also make the coding flexible enough for easy bot implementation in any other concept.

5) Add new content for skirmish public play while watching closely to feedback from players to make sure changes only creating an overwhelming positive effect on gameplay and population numbers.

6) Apply the Cazzo Forge gametype/map concept to other itemsets besides skirmish, so that players could for instance play a Co-op mode vs bots with Eol Advanced settings.


I'll be posting more about specifics as time goes on and be open to any questions regarding anything mentioned above as well.
O
OP 🤝
11/29/2018

Few new things:

-More detailing has been added to the map. Map should be roughly 85% complete now.

-Map has had a couple changes that affect gameplay.
-A very tight choke has been added to the east middle building. This should help improve player flow, especially in lower pop games.
-Two very small bridges have been added over the main methane river. These are mainly designed as "stalemate" bridges that are easily defendable, but provide access to the other side of river when needed without having to travel too far.

-We have adjusted the radar "pinging" on flag captures.
-Flag auto-capture radius is now larger.
-Having to capture the next flag in progression seemed to not be 100% common sense, so we added a feature to help direct people to the correct flag. A new "arrow" radar ping will now point and travel to the flag the needs to be captured next.

-We have started work on a Medic bot. These bots may be used to even teams up when there are no medics available on a team as well as prove very important in a the upcoming Coop Vs AI mode. We will be testing these bots in public - they are a work in progress so don't freak out.
O
OP 🤝
12/1/2018

Map Updates:

More rock cover has been added in various places as well as rock cliffs changed/extended to help with gameplay.
Small rock pebbles have been added in the grass and around cliffs for detail.
Dying grass patches, small hills, and small plants added for detailing.
A few chokes have been narrowed.
The inside structures in the two big buildings are now orange physics instead of red.
Map should be approaching 95% completion.

Other Updates:

Medic Bot has various logic improvements.
2 more flags have been added. These new flags are closer to each base.
Marine Bots have began first stage of testing. This version just runs to an enemy spraying shotgun.
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⭐ x1 👑 Gentlemen
Great work. Great fun pub map. Great fun game style. Well done gentlemen. Pub has never been this fun. Love the idea and the fast paced environment.
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OP 🤝
Want to discuss with you guys a few upcoming features planned.

I talked a little bit about a progression system before. We actually began live testing of it last night. I wanted to breakdown how we are currently planning on for it to work and most importantly, why we are introducing it in the first place. Before all that, I'd like to make it clear that all changes planned are aimed at keeping the classic skirmish feel. There are no plans for laser cannons and mortars etc currently.

So... why? Why change an itemset that has been around for god knows how many years? There are two basic reasons:

1) Expand the appeal of the zone to more players by variety, customization, and grind.

2) Make current players want to be more active, log in earlier, and stay later.

To put it simply, better skirmish game play only goes so far. A good portion of potential players will need more to get them hooked in the zone. The tricky part is introducing changes that still keep skirmish feeling skirmish.

<b>Progression System - Part 1 - Weapon Upgrades </b>

I'd like to preface this with that weapon upgrade system is an optional feature for main public play - you will have the ability to opt out and have no upgraded damage done to you so casual players are never at a large disadvantage because of not being able to commit much play time.

All classes main and secondary weapons will have the ability to be upgraded. These upgrades will be solely damage upgrades and will not affect any other aspect of the weapon's behavior. Damage upgrades will be under a Bonus category that affects bots and players, as well as Anti-Bot damage. Anti-Bot damage upgrades will be much larger and make a huge difference in Co-Op mode. There will be 20 levels of upgrades - with the first levels being very easy to obtain and getting harder and harder as you go up.

To purchase an upgrade, their will be a simply F10 menu choice such as "Upgrade Assault Rifle" that costs $10k. This menu choice is used for all levels of the weapons. As weapon level rises, chances for the upgrade to fail or even downgrade increase.

Here is a quick example of Assault Rifle damage upgrades:

Assault Rifle Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 0.00 Anti-Bot Damage 0.0
Assault Rifle +1 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 0.25 Anti-Bot Damage 0.5
Assault Rifle +2 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 0.50 Anti-Bot Damage 1.0
Assault Rifle +3 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 0.75 Anti-Bot Damage 1.5
Assault Rifle +4 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 1.00 Anti-Bot Damage 2.0
Assault Rifle +5 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 1.25 Anti-Bot Damage 2.5
Assault Rifle +6 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 1.50 Anti-Bot Damage 3.0
Assault Rifle +7 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 1.75 Anti-Bot Damage 3.5
Assault Rifle +8 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 2.00 Anti-Bot Damage 4.0
Assault Rifle +0 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 2.25 Anti-Bot Damage 4.5
Assault Rifle +10 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 2.50 Anti-Bot Damage 5.0
Assault Rifle +11 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 2.75 Anti-Bot Damage 5.5
Assault Rifle +12 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 3.00 Anti-Bot Damage 6.0
Assault Rifle +13 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 3.25 Anti-Bot Damage 6.5
Assault Rifle +14 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 3.50 Anti-Bot Damage 7.0
Assault Rifle +15 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 3.75 Anti-Bot Damage 7.5
Assault Rifle +16 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 4.00 Anti-Bot Damage 8.0
Assault Rifle +17 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 4.25 Anti-Bot Damage 8.5
Assault Rifle +18 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 4.50 Anti-Bot Damage 9.0
Assault Rifle +19 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 4.75 Anti-Bot Damage 9.5
Assault Rifle +20 Normal Damage 14 Bonus Damage 5.00 Anti-Bot Damage 10.0

We tested the Assault Rifle +20 in a 10 vs 10 setting last night. One team's marines all were given the AR +20 while facing a team with the normal AR. The team with upgraded AR did push the other team back, but the advantage was not great enough where it was not noticed at all by the opposing team. When the upgrades were removed the battle stalemated for the last 5 minutes. Skill was still the deciding factor in those fights.

I'll post a spreadsheet that breaks down the damage upgrades for the rest of the weapons soon. Again, there will be opt-out classes so if an opt-out Marine faces a marine with +20 AR, the +5 bonus damage will be ignored and both of their ARs will do the exact same damage to one another.
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OP 🤝
<b> Progression System - Part 2 - Armor Upgrade </b>

A very simple armor system will be introduced with the main idea of counteracting weapon upgrades as well as reducing the damage that bots do.

Right now we're planning on one Armor but that may be subdivided into each class having it's separate armor with the same values.

Combat Armor +1 - Nullifies all +1 Bonus Damage and protects vs X amount of Bot Damage
Combat Armor +2 - Nullifies all +2 Bonus Damage and below and protects vs X amount of Bot Damage
etc etc etc

Basically if you have Combat Armor +10 and are shot at with an AR +10 the AR will do its normal 14 damage. However, if you are shot at with a +20 AR you will receive 16.5 damage.

The armor will be extremely effective for Co-Op mode, whereas you will have to weigh out what you would like to upgrade for public mode - your weapon or armor.
Edited Dec 4, 2018
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OP 🤝
<b> Progression System - Part 3 - Unlocks / Masteries / Proficiencies</b>

So while the armor and weapon systems mainly use Cash to earn those, Unlocks will use experience.

This category is still being fully fleshed out but right now the current plan is to promote variety and neat extra abilities. Very slight improvements that would not be able to be nullified by any other means.

Class unlocks are definitely a potential. Bringing back the Elites or reintroducing Spec Ops / Rocketeer etc. Potential new classes if they fit Skirmish well would be unlocked here.

Another potential is things like "LAW Mastery" where it allows one additional law to be held and used. If your class didn't have access to LAWs beforehand, you would now be able to use 1. Otherwise a marine would now start with 2. This same principle could be applied to hand grenades, incin grenades, throwing knives, etc.

Another idea is Secondary Weapon Proficiency. An example would be a Shotgun Proficiency. If you purchase this ability you can use Shotgun with any class. Medic or AT could benefit greatly from this. Same thing could be applied to "Old Combat Knife" / "Chainsword" or "PDW." Experience Requirements would have to be pretty high.

Any additional abilities could go here as well - ideas like increased LOS, double health regen, etc. I definitely could use any ideas that you all have for extra abilities or what experience could be used for. Nothing game breaking.
Edited Dec 4, 2018
Webmaster 👑 x24 👑 Gentlemen CO
Seems like a cool idea. My concern would be the fact that these upgrades are not available in league matches. So one could become too accustomed to the upgrades. I think this could be a great system with a different itemset like an update to The Arena or Eol that already has an RPG element. I think people are overall just kind of tired of Skirmish. I know I am.

At its core, Skirmish has always largely been exactly what its name is. A quick battle. Something you can just drop in and out of without really putting much thought into the systems and mechanics. It's always come down to player skill and tactics over who has the better weapons/armor. I think we could perhaps introduce a progression system similar to how it used to be where you need experience to unlock classes.

You start off as a Marine or Medic and work your way up to other classes. You could even reintroduce classes like Titan/Collective Elite and Scout. You could put realistic experience requirements as well, unlike before where it only required like 5,000 to unlock the classes. Also adding more interesting ways to earn exp could be fun. Instead of just gaining exp from wins and kills you could put up bounties on players who have kill streaks or put in supply drops that contain exp to whoever gets to open them first.

I think we should focus more on different game modes and unlocks over chasing a carrot on a stick. Instead of just TDM which we play every Sunday already, we could do KoTH, CTF/Control, S&D, Payloads, etc.. I think different game modes would breathe more life into public play than upgrades but I could be wrong. To me, the USL stats/charts in the zone don't mean anything. I never even look at the top 100 or the score online chart. Alienating yourself from USL and introducing a public zone with a fresh database and giving people a reason to pursue the charts (wins/losses, captures, detonations, etc..) would be a lot more fun than mindless killing in a zone that's being piggybacked off of USL.
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OP 🤝
Sorry champ, wasn't ignoring you but I was typing the post that addressed some of your concerns lol

Regarding the not carrying over to league matches, from my experience the damage upgrades should not have much of an effect aside from Co-Op mode.

Speaking of that you mentioned more game modes bringing life into public play. I 100% agree. An alpha version of our next gametype, Co-Op mode, should be ready today. This will feature 1-8 players all on the same team that must fight through the entire Cazzo map facing bots. The upgrade system will really shine here and this mode will be a great way to earn cash and experience for new players as well as prevent a good challenge for even experienced players as difficulty levels will be introduced soon. Over time bosses and mini-bosses and missions will be introduced into this mode to add some fun. This mode is aimed at supporting SK players at off-peak times such as midday or allowing a gamemode to fade to whenever SBs and normal pub play are winding down at the end of the night.

I also think we need another game type for public play player vs player. Right now I'm leaning towards a Skirmish League style / Battle Royale influenced knock out style "Tournament" mode. This would utilize Cazzo's map with 2-4 person teams (private teams allowed). Teams would spawn together with equal distances from team to team across the map. The playable map area would shrink as time goes on allowing only the very middle of the map to be played on. Each player has 3 deaths before they are knocked out of the tournament. Last team standing wins.


And overall, I 100% agree lot of these ideas could be applied to other zones. Right now skirmish is the perfect sandbox to test them out. We all know 95% of the current players that log on like skirmish / tolerate skirmish.

Realistically, no other zone can run along a SK pub right now if it requires more than 10 players to be fun and do well without killing the SK pub (or the SK pub killing it.) We all saw what OvDs did to public SK gameplay. People see players in another zone , a zone that they don't like or play, and they simply log off. Despite the CTF community being a mostly separate player base. That's why I'm more focused on raising the current skirmish population and using skirmish to test out game modes with Cazzo before branching off into a completely different itemset. We start getting 60+ peaks again we can support 7v7 SK and a 30 person Eol Arena.
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A team KOTH (last man standing) would be fun.

Not counting TDM/Ambush, I believe Skirm/KR was the first zone with KOTH and Crowns. You don't get knocked out for dying, but you lose your Crown. And some variations, Eol for instance, had it where killing 2 Crowns earned you a Crown back.

Bringing that back could be fun.
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⭐ x6 easoe MVP C
Wasn't KOTH involved with Sniper School? Had the medals, if you don't kill anyone it expires, if you lose medal and kill 2 ppl with medals you regain it. Just a suggestion :x

oh and this is not for Sir Back's favor, im just sayin

double oh and i know Oct will ask me again. i like this zone, i dont dislike it. so =PPPPPPP
Edited Dec 4, 2018
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OP 🤝
@Rob I actually really like the idea of medals and KoTH as a potential side objective. Main objective could still be map progression via flagging / killing. Side objective could be KoTH wins. KoTH games don't make the match restart when they end, just give rewards to winner. So 2-3 KoTH games might run in course of one main game. I think that could be a real fun idea. A new form of bountying will be added soon as well btw.

There is one big problem with KoTH on this server tho and that is noone ever programmed the actual medal / crown showing next to the player in game, they only show on the player list.
Edited Dec 4, 2018
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Rob Zomby wrote:
Wasn't KOTH involved with Sniper School? Had the medals, if you don't kill anyone it expires, if you lose medal and kill 2 ppl with medals you regain it. Just a suggestion :x oh and this is not for Sir Back's favor, im just sayin double oh and i know Oct will ask me again. i like this zone, i ...
I don't think it was just Sniper School... maybe it was...

But I thought there was an actual Skirmish map with the KOTH/Crown settings.

I think it could fit nicely into Cazzo Forge either way.
Webmaster 👑 x24 👑 Gentlemen CO
The USL Pub minimaps had KoTH at one point. Killing Fields used to be an SK zone on SOE that used the KR map but it had no vehicles and was KoTH.
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Champion wrote:
The USL Pub minimaps had KoTH at one point. Killing Fields used to be an SK zone on SOE that used the KR map but it had no vehicles and was KoTH.
That's the map I am thinking of.

Killing Fields.
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OP 🤝
Loved me some killing fields.
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League Analyst 💎 x10 🥇 Gentlemen
We had koth in pub in like 2012
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I'm new so I figured I'd throw in some feedback from someone who hasn't played in years. Played last night and it was fun. The new zone had lots of fast action like I remembered, and I like all these new ideas. Even if the new ideas don't work, good on ya for trying them out. Only wish there were more people/zones/arenas but oh well. Great job keeping it alive. Kudos
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OP 🤝
12/5/2018

Co-Op mode is now semi-playable. Type ?arena to see it. This will feature a 1-8 player vs Bot gametype.

Bot weapons no longer are blocked by other bots.
Sniper Rifle has had 25 additional bot damage added to it.
Throwing knives now do double damage to bots.
Supply Drops have began testing.

Bounty system is now in. This is a uniquely setup system compared to any other zone before it. Try it out!

Kill rewards are in and currently being tested.
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OP 🤝
12/6/2018

Sniper Rifle reload has been changed from Dependent to Universal. This allows the sniper rifle to be reloaded while shooting PDW or throwing knives. This change is mainly for Co-Op mode ,but it will have a side effect of improving Sniper's close range combat.
The new grenade launcher is now being tested. This is a crossover from the old style GL to the bouncing GL. To shortly explain it, it is very similar to how GL used to function but after the first bounce the grenades have less damage. I'm expecting to this to be a little on the overpowered side but it will be adjusted as testing continues.
Co-Op mode bots no longer "flee" unless they are under 50 hp.
Marine Bots aim has been worsened.
A good amount of backend work has been done to prepare for upgrade system.
The upgrade F10 items have been added but they will not be enabled until the scripting is done.
Classic Classes have been added. These are not affected by any Bonus damage from upgrades weapons but they also cannot use any upgraded weapons.
Jackpot System has been implemented. This will reward players at end of the game with a reward based upon their contribution to the game.
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