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Ripper
Homelander May 25, 2024 8 replies 241 views
H
OP Zone Developer 🛡️ x1
We've experimented with Ripper for awhile now this offseason and I think now is a good time to go over some of the results.

Side note: If you ever see me parking a voice channel, sometimes this is to record a SB, but often it is just so I can listen to the community and hear what people are saying so I can properly address concerns and gather information to direct development. If there's ever a need for more privacy, just let me know and I'll leave the vc.

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Background:

First, a brief background for the uninitiated. A trial version of Ripper was initiated in Season 21 and continued until the conclusion of Season 22 in which Ripper's damage was reduced from 18.5 to 17 and it was given team passthrough for the ripper bullets. While this was an interesting and novel idea by Tyrael to increase its effectiveness in squad battles, I believe the results showed that Ripper popularity dropped during these seasons, or best case you could say it remained the same, which is to say, low. Please note that I always count squad battles as well as matches in the overall USL experience because I think it is problematic to discount squad battle experience which makes up the vast majority of the USL gaming experience. This was the basis for our experimenting with Ripper in this offseason.

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Rationale:

The theory for our Ripper experiment has two branches. One, even with team passthrough, ripper needed a damage boost to 18 (which is still 0.5 less than what it was) in order to address at minimum the results of the S21 and S22 trial. This is currently where Ripper Gunner is at in this offseason. Two, one can argue that the best use of a Ripper in USL is as a Heavy Ripper, armored to counter its high static vulnerability, and used in a closer range against enemy with lower reaction and evasion time, with the balance tradeoff being no team passthrough and shorter range. Thus, we have a Ripper fork into Heavy Ripper that has 60% of the armor of Assault Trooper, 18 damage (we lowered it from 18.5), no team passthrough, and 70% of the range of Ripper Gunner. Note that Heavy Ripper has two significant balancing factors to its armor. The theory is that this version of Ripper is not only more effective but also more enjoyable to play as a class that's optimized for tactical positioning and closer combat is axiomatically going to be more fun than a class that's optimized for spray and pray distant combat (and feedback has supported this).

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Facts:

While limited by my exposure (I'm not always around), I do believe that we have seen more usage of Heavy Ripper than Ripper in squad battles, and more overall interest in playing Ripper this offseason than before. A limitation here is test interest, but test interest usually wanes very quickly if players don't like the test class. It doesn't endure as it has with Heavy Ripper, which was only interrupted when we too drastically cut its range before cautiously and incrementally increasing it again. It's also notable that Heavy Ripper is now being played by strong players like Sol, Sabotage, and Kaga, whom I didn't really see playing Ripper prior. Strong competitive players don't play poorly calibrated classes. Not only has Heavy Ripper seen usage, but it seems to be performing well (not overly well) in squad battles based on my sample. I believe this result supports and substantiates my theory of the class and justifies its existence for at minimum the length of an actual season to gather more results/feedback.

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Addressing Concerns:

The main concern that I've seen raised, predictably by players that don't play Ripper, is that Ripper (usually Heavy Ripper) seems to be overpowered now.

The first thing I'm going to say in response to this is please try playing Heavy Ripper, or even just Ripper. While every opinion is valid, it is made all the more valid from someone who is actively experiencing a change themselves from the perspective of Ripper. Remember that the whole point of this exercise was to make Ripper a more appealing class. It is clear that the class sucked in the USL dynamic and what we are trying to do is make it viable based on a sound theory of the class.

The other thing to point out here is that it is basically a universal truth that when a competitive gamer is killed, and killed suddenly, their instinctive reflex is to externalize the blame. It is most often an emotional reaction and doesn't take into account the totality of what is going on. So Ripper is designed that in certain combat situations, it will be stronger than a more well-rounded soldier class like Marine and LMG, for the very reason that it is a specialized class and thus it will suck in all the other combat situations for which it is not optimized. Players will not complain during all the times that Ripper is being dead weight and dragging a squad, but they will overemphasize the moments when it does well for exactly what it is intended to do well in because of that emotional reaction.

FACT - you cannot neuter a class for doing well in the situations it's meant to do well in and still expect players to want to play that class when the fact is that it sucks in all the other situations for which it is not optimized and now you've made it mediocre for even its "good" combat situations. This thinking about Ripper is what has kept it unappealing for all this time.

Thus, no, you cannot charge at a Ripper as a solo Marine, get demolished, and then say "damn, that class is broken." That's not a case for it being broken, that's a case of a player not properly accounting for the very strength and value of a Ripper in a squad battle.

AT, used well in the situations its optimized for, kills you just as fast as a Ripper can in its optimized situations, and it's been in place in this form for all this time, because we understand that nerfing AT too much would just make it useless. It is so critical to take into account class specialization when prudently assessing power/balancing status.

So why armor now? Because of how Infantry is these days, there's very little pub play and most of what we enjoy is squad battles. Squad battles have a very different dynamic than pub and originally Ripper was designed with pub play in mind. In squad battles, persistently static to shoot (not counting Demo which only has to be static to get a single shot off), is a massive, massive detriment and weakness in a dynamic where the enemy are organized and using voice comms to focus fire and pick off vulnerable targets. Being persistently static to shoot is a giant vulnerability that is exploited by the enemy. This was the rationale for armor. To make ripper less frustrating to play in a squad battle dynamic and to tactically optimize it for more enjoyment, usefulness, and efficacy through surgical and thoughtful modification.
S
I ain’t reading all that
I’m happy for u tho
Or sorry that happened
C
⭐ x1 👑 Gentlemen
When it’s a class the top dogs play they say “get good at the game and adapt”.

When it’s a class the top dogs DONT play they say “it’s OP take it out of the game”

Fucking CLOWNS.
Webmaster 👑 x24 👑 Gentlemen CO
No I said make tweaks to sniper before gutting it or deleting it
K
💎 x16 🔱 Phenylephrine HCI
What does Eric think though???
T
⭐ x7 🥉 Gentlemen
kaga wrote:
What does Eric think though???
loooool
O
🤝
So much fluff in that post MP

I think some of your data/assumptions are off.

1) I think ripper saw more people using it once passthrough was added by Tyrael.

2) sol / kaga / nos have always dabbled in ripper occasionally. Not sure about Sabo tho. They may be using it more now to test changes and experiment or if they think it’s OP but I don’t think that’s an accurate reflection that “armor / heavy ripper is s good change” - I do think we should actually ask them and any other ripper players their thoughts on ripper and potential changes and their opinions should be valued higher than others.



My take:

I am against any ripper that has its range reduced. So I am very much against Heavy Ripper in its current form. Reducing range on ripper starts diminishing/changing its already established niche instead of enhancing or providing additional viability.

A ripper with armor instead of pass through suits my playstyle with Ripper more. I hated the pass through change when it was introduced.

However…

Provided ripper damage is kept 18 fo 18.5 range, pass through gives the class more depth in potential tactics and ways to play the class than armor. It’s not just a straight up all around buff to the class like extra HP or armor is - it adds additional function to the class ( I think this was clear in s21 by watching Tyrael/Backs/ others play the class.)

Referee ⭐ x4 💎 Kays Krew 3
AT was broken, Heavy Ripper is broken.

Get gud and play Marine.
Referee ⭐ x4 💎 Kays Krew 3
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel, leave the classes alone you guys aint him.